Apparatus DM

[DESTROYGIRL]

Deathmatch map out at sea.

NeotokyoRebuild/neo#2038

[Rainyan]

Generally speaking LGTM but some nits below.

• Are these cranes in the BG scenery intentional? It feels a bit weird since the environment gives a sense of being stranded at sea, but then these crane views kinda clash with that image making it feel like actually we're quite near to land. But maybe personal preference in terms of visual design. (Screenshow below)

• This spawn feels super dark:

Especially when turning left to face the wall, at least with my monitor settings it's almost completely black:

I imagine it could get very awkward to have a gunfight around this area:

Perhaps add a bit more light to make it more accessible, especially for people with low-end screens that can't do deep black levels accurately?

• Am I supposed to be able to do this jump puzzle? Since it feels like the playerclip is trying to prevent me from jumping atop the fence using the orange handrail, so getting kinda mixed signals from the level design:

Perhaps either clip it out all the way to prevent the green jump, or alternatively allow the handrail climb, to avoid the confusion? Since it feels weird to be magically blocked by the playerclip and just "have to know" where to climb to make it happen.

• Some weird-feeling areas around the props with no collision box around the vertices - perhaps these should be manually clipped for consistency? See below:

• Getting network prediction errors when these props are moving around/interacting with players. Could get awkward for high ping players/maybe worth making the props not move at all(?) See image below:

Nitpick: feels strange for this futuristic generator to make no sound whatsoever. Maybe there's some electric hum sound in the SDK/HL base sound that could be used here to make it more believable?

• Gameplay: super strong defensive angle here, is this intentional? If not, perhaps block with some incidental coverage like a box/vehicle blocking the sightline. Else could be super annoying to try and push:

• Another somewhat strong angle, is this one intentional? If yes then I guess that's cool, since it's not as OP as the one above. But felt like pointing it out.

• UX nit: this intuitively feels like I should be able to drop down, and I imagine it's super frustrating to do so and insta-die. Perhaps you could block the access to the catwalk with some kind of visual cue, like a steeply inclined chicken net metal mesh, so it's obvious there's no way you can reach this lower platform without plummeting to the ocean?

Maybe also lower the death trigger, since it feels weird to die of suicide mid-air before hitting the sea? At least once you're underwater, it feels reasonable that you've died of plummeting to the water but it's kinda strange/"unfair-feeling" to die while still thinking you're mid-air doing some kind of an airstrafe.

[Rainyan]

Splitting this into two because too much stuff... more nits below. Apologies for the strange resolution, I messed up the OBS setup for the recordings.

• This walk feels a bit clumsy since the walk physics routine is preventing you from climbing this slope without climbing. Perhaps either adjust the slope angle or do some fake playerclip stairs to make it feel nicer? Especially since this is close to "mid", and I imagine it would be frustrating to get jank movement here and die because of it:

awkward_walk_enc.webm

• Very nitpicky but maybe improve the playerclip here, since you can get an awkward angle with the pure vphysics that drops you below, and that could be frustrating:

clippy_enc.webm

• UX nitpick: it feels like the game affordances are telling me I should be able to climb this roof but I can't. And I imagine this would feel bad as the player since it is the classic case of "invisible wall". Perhaps add some kind of a fence or other plausible obstacle to justify the player being unable to do this:

feels_like_should_be_able_to_climb_A_enc.webm

• Similar situation where the player might think they can make a jump, but they get punished by an invisible obstacle:

feels_like_should_be_able_to_climb_B_enc.webm

• Clip nitpick: this is a good playerclip placement, but maybe extend it a little bit more to the side, so it's effective all the way:

glide_enc.webm

• A non-recon player could accidentally stuck themselves in this corner. Perhaps add some small prop etc to make it possible to escape the corner without requiring the player to know how to do the tick perfect crouch-jump mechanic (or alternatively loosen the wall clearance to remove the need for jumping):

maybe_stuck_enc.webm

• These props don't seem to predict very well (cl_showerror), so perhaps make them not move? Since it could get akward if they're moving about and blocking/not blocking movement and high-ping players' clients are disagreeing with the client about their positions, making for weird jittery gameplay, in worst-case scenario:

network_errs_A_enc.webm

• Is this sniper spot intentional? If not, maybe it should be blocked off?

sniper_spot_enc.webm

• Also that above ladder kinda reads like it should lead the player into some meaningful position. But since it doesn't, perhaps it would be good to block it off somehow, to avoid giving mixed signals. For example:

or something similar that reads easily as "you cannot go here", so the player isn't confused about whether they can/cannot climb all the way to the top.

• This area feels like it's giving mixed signals of whether you can/cannot move across it since it looks like you are being blocked by the metal beams but they can be walked through (also very difficult to exit without dying):

strange_place_enc.webm

• This window seems to be rendering differently based on the side you're looking from, and feels like it's unfair in terms of vision:

unfair_window_enc.webm

[Rainyan]

(Also mostly focused on the negatives/things to fix but map looks cool 👍 )

[DESTROYGIRL]

Thanks for the thorough review. BTW it may have been easier to track discussion if there was a review comment for each comment, but its all good XD

Are these cranes in the BG scenery intentional? It feels a bit weird since the environment gives a sense of being stranded at sea, but then these crane views kinda clash with that image making it feel like actually we're quite near to land. But maybe personal preference in terms of visual design.

The cranes are supposed to be part of other platforms in this cluster out at sea much like the one the map is on, not land. Granted I could have made some custom sprites for it but I don't think it would look much different. Initially I was going to have some glowing sprites, but I found it very difficult to achieve with the limitations of the skybox

This spawn feels super dark

I'll add some light to these edge areas.

Am I supposed to be able to do this jump puzzle? Since it feels like the playerclip is trying to prevent me from jumping atop the fence using the orange handrail, so getting kinda mixed signals from the level design

Yes, you're allowed to stand on top of it, the clip is there to prevent players from standing on the handrail so half of their body isn't obscured while they peek out the top. I'll add something to make it obvious it can't be stood on

Some weird-feeling areas around the props with no collision box around the vertices - perhaps these should be manually clipped for consistency

I'll clip these

Getting network prediction errors when these props are moving around/interacting with players

I added these for the simple joy of monkey push thing down hill, I thought prediction errors were par for the course with server simulated physics props, I'd prefer not to remove them unless they pose a significant obstruction to gameplay, you can only push them off once really so I thought the impact to be minimal. Despite 20 years of technological advancements I am still enjoying random things like this personally

feels strange for this futuristic generator to make no sound whatsoever

It does make sound, ambient_generic sounds don't play until the round starts like most maps due to them starting before the client connects

super strong defensive angle here, is this intentional

I'll jam something in there

This walk feels a bit clumsy since the walk physics routine is preventing you from climbing this slope without climbing

I can add a little clip stair there

Very nitpicky but maybe improve the playerclip here...

Will do

it feels like the game affordances are telling me I should be able to climb this roof but I can't

I'll put a small fence there or something

Similar situation...

This one I felt the same but is very very difficult to do without making the structure look very stupid. I'll try and add something

...maybe extend it a little bit more to the side...

Will do.

A non-recon player could accidentally stuck themselves in this corner

I'll lower the handrails

These props don't seem to predict very well...

See earlier response

Is this sniper spot intentional?

Not intentional, good find. Will fix

Also that above ladder kinda reads like it should lead the player into some meaningful position

It sort of does, it can be used to easily get to the roof with skillfull movement when jumping off. It leads a lot higher because its cool to get an extra high view of the map (though you aren't supposed to be able to stand at the top)

This area feels like it's giving mixed signals of whether you can/cannot move across it

I recognised this, though the beams are part of the prop and it looks good, I thought it might be okay like this as a high risk niche spot

This window seems to be rendering differently based on the side you're looking from

Intentional one sided glass, though its only going to exist until the first engagement in that area until its smashed for the 10+ minutes game, thought it'd be funny to have

[Rainyan]

BTW it may have been easier to track discussion if there was a review comment for each comment(...)

Ah, my bad. GitHub does this automatically for code comments but it didn't occur to me to split comments for a manually written report for something like map feedback. I'll keep it in mind for the future though!

I added these for the simple joy of monkey push thing down hill, I thought prediction errors were par for the course with server simulated physics props, I'd prefer not to remove them unless they pose a significant obstruction to gameplay, you can only push them off once really so I thought the impact to be minimal.

Can't really argue against that. Felt like pointing it out since my prediction error log was crying wolf, but indeed physics-based barrels flying around is infinitely more fun than no barrel frantically flying around. I say screw the errors & keep the physics barrels!

[Rainyan]

It does make sound, ambient_generic sounds don't play until the round starts like most maps due to them starting before the client connects

Ah, this is my bad for not having bots connect but simply exploring the map alone.

[Rainyan]

Intentional one sided glass, though its only going to exist until the first engagement in that area until its smashed for the 10+ minutes game, thought it'd be funny to have

This one's really hard to communicate to the player without them being frustrated if/when they get killed not knowing about it. But I can respect the experiment, just wanted to know if this was on purpose and not a bug.

Sort of off-topic but it would be cool if we had design language to signal to the player that there is one-sided vision at play for a surface. But maybe too niche to put too much effort into(?) Similar to how we have the "BALLISTIC GLASS" or whatever red decal which tells the player exactly that, used in maps like tarmac etc. Like have some kind of symbol for this concept.

[DESTROYGIRL]

But maybe too niche to put too much effort into

Well, I think this sort of thing anywhere is kind of dumb design which is why it isn't done much, or at least with surfaces you can shoot through. I'd be more inclined to just make it opaque on both sides. Probably more skill involved in being able to guess where the enemy is before shooting from footsteps or something, currently its like single use wallhax lol